(no subject)

[minervasolo]

There's a very famous series of threads in the Harry Potter fandom, which basically read as the dos-and-don'ts of Mary Sues. I feel really sorry for the girl who conceived the character, since she even describes her as her 'alterego' and obviously takes any attacks on the character personally. of course, the girl is a scary Mary Sue. Immensely rich, anorexic thin (that really worried me, actually), transfer student, IQ of over 700 (!!!), adored by the other characters... She's even a cheerleader. This is the sort of character that you assume must be a parody, because no one could write it seriously. Every time people convince her to change something she swaps it form something equally unbeleive, i.e. 700+IQ turns into knowing 10 languages, being an aristocrat turns into being incredibly rich, and so on. She doesn't even have a token flaw.

And that's what bugs me. All these people replied saying "your character is a total Mary Sue - look at my character, she's Snape's daughter and she had a really tragic past and she's a believable OC because she has a bad temper". If you're critcising someone else's OC, I think it's very bad form to pimp out your own, expecially as an example of how different they are. Nearly every example I've read of... no wait, EVERY example I've read of a personal OC is a Mary Sue. It's just, well crass. (The more I talk about this, the more upper class my vernacular is getting, which is amusing me greatly). Too many Mary Sue's have token flaws, and that doesn't stop them form being a Mary Sue. It just means the author couldn't be bothered to write them realistically enough to get away without having a token flaw.

This girl didn't actually originally ask for help on her character. And yet, people offered it. Excpet they didn't. They ripped her adored avatar to shreds, and most couldn't bring themselves to find a single things they liked about her. No wonder she thought people hated her. Of course, then most of the threads (The debate about this character lasted over a month, and spanned three thread) turn into people saying "we don't hate you but..." There's a good concept in there - she's one of the 'missing Gryffindor girls'. No one metniond that. They all turned around and started finding every single little fault in this character. They all just said 'change', but most didn't give any reference what to.

This is what bugs me the most about the HP fandom. Everyone's really nice to each other, but they're horrors to each other's characters. There's a differenece between being 'stern' and being cruel. Pointing out a character's inherent flaws can be a kind thing in the long run, but if you do only that it's extremely discouraging for the writer. You know nothing about how the cahracter is going to be written, so screaming 'Mary Sue' at every available interval is unjustified. And asking people 'is this supposed to be some kind of parody' is cruel. In fact, a lot of reactions are cruel. Ripping someone's character to shreds is mean, no matter how muh it may help in the long run. It takes a very strong and fair person to take that kind of criticism, and I bet a lot of people stop writing once people react like that to a character. People either don't give suggestions of alternatives, which leads to different Mary Sue qualities being substituted for the originals, or they practically write the story for them. Neither are helpful. Sarcasm isn't helpful either. Insults aren't helpful. Laughing isn't helpful.

I'm very closed-minded about Mary Sues, I won't read fanfiction based around an OC, unless none of hhte canon characters appear in it. Prehaps I'm putting too much faith in the talents of these writers. A lot of characters would be very hard to pull off, but that doesn't mean it's impossible. Maybe most characters like them - most people I know like me, but I'm not a Mary Sue. A likable character isn't a Mary Sue. An unlikable character written with everyone liking her - that's a Mary Sue.

One person on the boards has gained a repuation as a rabid Mary Sue hunter. She helps a lot of inexperienced authors, but, IMO, she goes about it the wrong way. A lot of people can't stand her, not for the points she made about their character but the way she made them. I think that's the jist I'm trying to get across here: "It's not the points you make, but the way you make them". Most people are too critical, and the moment anyone starts comparing someone's OC to their own, I stop reading. It's arrogant.

I think I'm going to go and post an OC on there, just to see how people rip her apart. 'll note some of hte replies here, if they amuse/annoy me

Sorry, I just had to add this to show the extent to which the MarySueism goes in the threads mentioned at the beginning of the rant. 10, 10, names!
NAME: Lorelei Allison Tremaine Seremity Reed Loreley Ekler Clarisse Mille Wiese


I'm sorry, that just really pissed me off. Is it that hard to be nice to someone, even if you disagree with what they've said?

Comments

[painispretty.livejournal.com]

I don't understand why people write OCs. An original character is a wonderful thing, and the best thing you can do with them is put them in their own world, to flourish. The problem is that people don't have the confidence or the imagination to do this, and so they place them somewhere they know well, where the effort of creating a world and other believable characters has already been made.

I don't read OC fic either, it drives me demented. I *write* Mary-Sues (well, my own variety, which usually involves a thoroughly traumatised male character who most characters don't like or who most characters unintentionally ignore) but I don't show them to anyone, because I understand what Mary-Sues are - fantasy-fulfillment for people who live through what they're reading/writing (now is not the time to ask about my Mary-Sues, honest).

I just wish someone would say "OCs are for OF, Fanfiction contains PRECREATED CHARACTERS," and leave it at that.

[/rant]

[minervasolo.livejournal.com]

I just can't bring myself to read a fic written around an OC no matter how well it's written. I'll write OCs, but as plot devices. Characters need someone to kill? Right, OC. Need a boss? Right, OC. Need to kill their boss? and so on and so forth. I don't see the point in OC fanfiction.

OCs are for OF, Fanfiction contains PRECREATED CHARACTERS
You hit the nail on the head, as always! ^_^

[painispretty.livejournal.com]

Together we could take over the fandom. Or we could get lives, which is cooler and involves less eye strain and backstabbing (mostly). I don't see the point in OC fanfiction to wave at other people. If you're going to write it, write it like a diary, not like an LJ - PRIVATE NOT PUBLIC.

Heh. Needs to kill their boss. I like that.

[almighty-frog.livejournal.com]

Read the first bit - you're definitely right about them going about it the wrong way. I have a feeling that if criticism had been given more nicely then the author may have changed the MS, but with the actual way people responded she's decided to dig her heels in.

[minervasolo.livejournal.com]

Having read the threads, she wasn't going to change her character. She admitted she was a Mary Sue, even (quote below, because I'm bored). People kept trying to force her to change Lorelei, which is why it ran onto three threads, instead of accepting her decision. They're very very pushy like that. And they talk over people's heads, as though they're assuming they won't read the thread. There are two people who just got excessivey cruel. On the other hand, she was talking about her character in the first person by the second thread, which is never a good sign.

Quoting some of the stuff she posted:

"Why I emphasize so much on Lorelei: well, she's my alterego, muse, and much of my stories are centered around her. I originally knew her before HP. If you desire to hear the entire story of how she came about, please IM me. Thank you very much for your displeasure at this subject.
So don't laugh at her or riducule her, okay? I and she would really appreciate it, and because she has many MS-like qualities,
she is not a MS. Thank you for your consideration."
"...Lorelei is a MS, but you know what? I have fully accepted her as one-what I mean is that though she may be a MS to you doesn't mean that she'll be a MS to me. To me, she's perfectly fine and not overbearing. Even you think her that way, I don't care..."

She's asked for advice on another fic at the moment, and people are immediately talking about Lorelei again and telling her she has to cut her original character immediately. All she's given so far is the name! I'm being nice. Nice is the only way this girl will get it through her head that people are going to reject her MS characters.

[almighty-frog.livejournal.com]

Uh, that's exactly what I said. As for her not changing the character - obviously didn't make it clear what I meant last time - I think that because people were being bitchy she dug her heels in. If they'd been nicer, she may have changed some of the character instead of the knee-jerk reaction most people will get to insults.